Musings on literature and Dark Lords called Bob.

[clo_again]

Flicking through Tamora Pierce's In the Hand of the Goddess this morning, was struck by a thought; the bad guy's called Roger and all I remember from my first reading -- way, way back, before I'd so much as heard of tennis tournaments other than Wimbledon, never mind a guy called Federer -- is that I disliked him instantly. Not based on the way he was written although let's face it, the bad guy in fantasy is usually so obvious he may as well have a neon sign flashing "EVIL! EVIL!" in the text. No, I disliked him because I didn't like the name. I've never known a Roger in real life at all, there's no particular trauma or bad connotations to it for me, I just didn't *like* it. I remember reflecting at the time that it was the perfect name for a bad guy.

Obviously I got over that particular opinion. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing particulary evil about Roger Federer. I mean, I'd quite happily bet my entire book collection on him not torturing small kittens or plotting bodily harm against the rest of the locker room in his spare time. Except -- if he's not evil, what's the deal with our theory that he's the Devil? I can't imagine us coming with the same theory for Andy Roddick, purely because the Devil being called 'Andy'?! Yeah, like that'll happen.

Even better, why did I recently find during some idle magazine flicking that an archaic name for the Devil is Old Rodger? See, there's no way for my twelve-year-old self, hating Pierce's 'Roger', to have known that. It took me completely by surprise (though that quickly wore off enough for me to gleefully text the 'proof' to lossi.) What I'm saying is; is there something about the *name* Roger that suggests evil? Is the reason I spent the entirety of Northern Lights in a love-hate-indifferent relationship to the character Roger because, for me, the name *couldn't* belong to one of the good guys?

'Roger' is just an example, because it's the one that started me wondering this morning. Would a bad guy called Luke be quite as scary as one called, say, Vandemar? Why did Voldemort *really* rename himself from 'Tom Marvolo Riddle' and would he have been as successful if he'd decided "To hell with it; I'll call myself Marvolo instead." Not exactly a name to strike terror into the masses. It's not to do with meanings either; I love etmology as much as anyone but considering 'Cameron' means 'bent nose', I doubt Cameron Diaz gets many people laughing at it on being introduced. It's more subconscious, social prejudicing that people probably wouldn't even be aware they were doing.

Prejudicing in fantasy literature on the basis of names. Maybe I should write a new dissertation proposal: "A Dark Lord Named Bob and Why it Wouldn't Work".

Comments

[kindoftrouble.livejournal.com]

But the Devil wears Prada ;) That is why Andy can't be the devil, and why Roger is :P

[clo.livejournal.com]

*grins* But if Roger was called Andy and still wore Prada? Would he still be the Devil? ;)

Actually, just trying to imagine that is boggling. *blinks* Huh.

[kindoftrouble.livejournal.com]

... but Andy wearing Prada is wrong. Also, he's too dumb and like a big fluffy puppy most of the time to be the devil.

However, Marat wearing Prada? Could so be the devil. Or Tommy. I can even imagine Mardy as the devil. Just not Andy.

[clo.livejournal.com]

But it'd still be Roger, only a Roger called Andy. Would he still be Roger if he'd been called Andy? *ponders* I agree, Andy's personality is totally undevil-like. Even Mardy is more likely to be the devil than him, I think.

... Okay, I typed that and *then* read your second paragraph. *grins* Mardy would work as the devil. Marat would make a *fantastic* devil but Marat is something of a devil-y name. I seriously think the evil of 'Tommy' is underrated. Most of the tour could probably be evil actually, though I've yet to come across 'Lleyton' or 'Andre' in fantasy literature so I'm lacking a basis of comparison. ;)

[kindoftrouble.livejournal.com]

*ponders* I think so. Because he'd still be mysterious and make dumb comments and look slightly evil sometimes. And play shiny-awesome tennis. And wear Prada. So yes, still the devil. Andy's personality doesn't fit the devil at all, he's too adorable and dumb. *pets Andy a whole lot fo being cute*

*dies* Mardy would so work as a devil! A pretty, blonde one with little red horns and it'd be so cute. And omg, want to write fic with Andy and Mardy at a fancy dress party with Mardy as the devil now. Socuteomg. Marat is a kind of devil-y name, really. He'd be a good devil though. Or a good vampire. *giggles* Lleyton isn't really a devil though. He could be a minion.

[clo.livejournal.com]

*grins* But *would* he? ;) If you'd been called Cleo or Jasmine or Bethany, would you still be you? ;) Maybe if Roger'd been called Dave or Jeremy, he'd like wearing jeans instead of Prada. Okay so it's not *likely*... but still fun. ^_^ Andy's not the devil at all. He'd just look adorably confused about what to do with the pitchfork.

I like this idea of Mardy secretly being the evil one. He'd look so *good with horns and you need to write that. *pokes* There are no words for how cute it would be. You could almost expect Marat to be the devil though, he's got the loom-y, dark looks for it. Mardy has the element of surprise. Lleyton as a minion! *dies* Awesome.

[kindoftrouble.livejournal.com]

I think I'd still be me. Your personality doesn't change that much because of what your name is, I don't think. Maybe, but it's unlikely, because I have a feeling the Prada is Mirka's doing anyway ;) Andy woud look adorable holding the pitchfork and he'd probably use it as like, a barbequing fork. Or something. So he could cook morefood more quickly.

Me too. This could be because I have an evil!Mardymuse and he likes to do evil things sometimes, and then look cute and innocent. Plus, everyone writes him as this blonde, innocent, pure thing and he's got to have some evil ;) Everyone does. I am going to write it. Don't worry ;) It will be so very cute, as it is Mardy with devil horns. CUTE. Mardy would be a more suprising choice but he would be a good devil, I think. Marat is almost too um... sterotyped with his looks and stuff ;) Lleyton so would be!

[clo.livejournal.com]

But ifthere's any basis to the being socially influenced against certain names things, how people view you might, even subtly, and that'd change you. :) (It's so a good thing I've already written my dissertation proposal because this is *tempting*). Mmm, good point. I'd rather see a Roger-without-Mirka than a Roger-being-called-Andy. *dies* Andy using the devil's pitchfork to barbeque with! He so would and Mardy Roger the Devil would be so pissy over it. Why did we not make our devil!verse a comedy?

My Mardy!muse has never done anything worse than some sulking but I've never considered letting him be properly evil and I have no idea why. The cute&innocent ones turning out to be evil never gets old. YAY!! *gives you cookies* This is one I definitely want to read because Mardy in devil horns = cutest. thing. ever. Yeah, if the devil's disguised as Marat then really, whats the point in bothering with disguise? Mardy's the one you'd least expect which is much more devilish. He so would be and it'd be hilarious. Andy would poke him with the pitchfork to wind him up. ;)

[australian-imp.livejournal.com]

Andre = great big wet, fish eating seal :D

[fionaandlossi.livejournal.com]

That I totally understand, because when one of the wrestlers started being announced as Dave Batista I wanted to write them a note telling them to stop because no one who is supposed to be big, mean and scary is called Dave.

Marvolo sounds like a stage magician's name.

[clo.livejournal.com]

Exactly! No self-respecting bad guy is called Dave; it almost screams out the 'good guy' vibes. It completely ruins the impact of 'Batista' which *is* scary.

Doesn't it just? ^_^ It makes me think of someone slightly bumbling whose tricks always, *always* go wrong. See, this is awesome. I thought maybe it was just me being crazy over the names but apparently not. :)

[lossi.livejournal.com]

Oooooooh...That dissertation would be fun, but I think it would be better w/ a linguistics degree/maybe a history one.

Is it just the sounds of some words or places where we've heard them before?

Also, Roger *leers*. Good people don't *leer*. :p

[clo.livejournal.com]

This is English. ;) I have one friend doing a theory dissertation on postmodernism and another one doing a music related one that I think has linguistic overtones. Someone did "Psychoanalysis with Star Wars" last year. We do bits of absolutely everything in English, so anything goes in the dissertation department. :D It's awesome.

No idea; it'd be one of the things to explore. That I can remember, I hadn't encountered anything to make me dislike the name 'Roger' before but I did. It's very odd.

*dies* He does, at some people more than others. But I disliked the name Roger waaaaay before I saw him leering; does he leer because he's called Roger or do we notice it more because of it or would he still leer even if he was called Dave? This really would be a great dissertation. :)

[australian-imp.livejournal.com]

*giggles*